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Grammar
Started by Brena at 08-17-2005 9:43 AM. Topic has 12 replies.
 
 
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08-17-2005, 9:43 AM
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Brena
Joined on 05-30-2005
United States
Posts 56
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I wrote an essay the other day about the city I live in. It's filled with metaphors, sarcasm and over the top analogies; you might even have a chuckle halfway through reading it (sometimes I like to let loose with my writing). It's designed to give people the impression of what life is like around these parts.
Anyway, I wrote it in one night. I set it aside till the next morning to give it a once over. I added some things to it, took some things out. I set it aside for another few hours to go over it once more––found a few more things to change. Just when I though it was ready, I emailed it to my husband to look it over. He looked it over and found a few errors; sentences that didn't make sense, word choice that might have been confusing and subject/verb agreement.
When he pointed those things out to me, I saw the errors right away. I couldn’t believe that I had made some of those mistakes. However, he wrote a formal letter to someone last week and I quickly found his errors.
When I submit articles to a magazine, I hire an editor to go over my piece. She doesn't usually do a lot of changes, but she makes it flow. She says, "Never quiet the writer's voice."
What's the rule for self-editing, or is it even possible?
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08-17-2005, 12:49 PM
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johnnysannie
Joined on 08-17-2005
Posts 15
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You might want to pick up a copy of "Self-Editing For Fiction Writers". The principles can be applied to any writing, not just fiction.
And read your work aloud. It helps locate errors and have smooth work.
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08-18-2005, 8:59 AM
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Scribbly
Joined on 07-29-2005
Posts 22
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Yes, I think self-editing is very possible. As you found, though,
it's not as easy as setting aside and then giving it the once over, but
it is possible.
This is what I do, others have a different tact, but it's whatever
works, right? For short pieces, I set aside for a day or two,
maybe for a week, and for long pieces, the set-aside time is about six
weeks, give or take. I make a printout, using a different
font and spacing than I wrote the thing in. The idea is to give
myself as much distance as possible, because I need objectivity.
Then I read it out loud, in a slow, low monotone. No inflections,
because inflections cause me to look forward and speed up the
reading. Slow focusses on each and every word. If I find a
bobble, I put a red dot there and keep going.
By doing this, I also get a better feel for the thing as a whole.
I can see that the story really begins down there, not where I did
begin. That characters can be combined, well, all sorts of
things. It's as if my ears heard things that my eyes were blind
to--I can't explain it, but this low, slow read aloud thing is
pecularly effective for me. I make those changes, the big ones,
not worrying about the punctuation or the "Their,there,they're" stuff.
Depending, I may let it rest and do the re-read thing, but the next
step is the whole paragraph-sentence dance. Is this clear or
muddy? Is this the best metaphor/description/whatever? Is
this as funny/sad/whatever as it can be? Jeez, what happened to
the cup that she was holding?--that sorta stuff.
The next level is down to the words. Can I get rid of any was,
were, am, is, are, but, the, that, or any of the small word
strings? "When Al was walking to the store..." to "As Al walked,
the store..." I don't know what those really are, but I think of
them as small word strings--lots of little words when a few better
words would do, well, better ![Smile [:)]](/WRT/CS/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) .
It's all subjective, it's really all about what feels right to you, and
then putting in the work so others see it, too. Or their version
of what you see, which is really all reading is.
There are those who can send out first drafts and get back acceptance
slips, but we don't invite them to parties and we absolutely never
speak to them--Ha! No, actually, I think they are geniuses and
admire them hugely; it's a true gift and talent.
Anyway, I hope this was of some help. Oh, and your way of giving
the work to a trusted reader is a great idea, too. After you gave
it to your husband for the go-over, and he pointed out some things, did
you find even more things? After all my jumping through hoops
stuff, I give it to my writing group, and darned if they don't find
things, too. And then I find more things I missed while doing the
(yet another) edit. It's so unfair! But it seems to be the
way of it, so there you go.
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08-18-2005, 10:27 AM
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Brena
Joined on 05-30-2005
United States
Posts 56
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I haven't seen it in a few days. I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow.
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09-24-2005, 1:39 AM
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Bandito63
Joined on 04-03-2005
SW MO
Posts 252
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Hi Brena,
I usually go over my magazine articles four times the same day that I write them. Each time, I read slowly and look at each word for spelling and correct usage. I make any necessary corrections and then, when I'm happy with it, I lay it down. The next day, I go over it again, for the fifth time . If I'm still happy with it, I send it in to the magazine.
If I'm not happy with it, I'll rewrite it and start checking it again. The important thing is to go slowly. When you get in a hurry or anxious, you make mistakes or overlook things.
Just curious, what does your editor charge? Does she make that much of a difference from what you give her and what she returns back to you as the finished product? I have always edited my own work and just assumed that everyone else did too.
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09-24-2005, 6:35 AM
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Brena
Joined on 05-30-2005
United States
Posts 56
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I put an ad on an online message board looking for an editor. I got about 15 or so responses. I sent each of them a sample paragraph (before I hired them) and had them edit it. Some of them did "straight" proofreader changes, but she changed a few words in a sentence if it didn't flow right--awkward phrases, etc. But the words she used were words that I'd use. However, my essays are very informal and sometimes filled with acceptable jargon that people use in everyday language. Some of the other editors changed my wording so much that it didn't seem like I wrote it. I’m willing to bet they were technical or business writers; they weren’t bad editors, they just didn’t fit my needs.
My editor charges me two cents per word. She charges me such a low rate because she wants to stay sharp with her editing and she enjoys reading essays. I sifted through 15 editors before I found her because she fit my style the most, and I liked her style based on her own writing.
She's a copyeditor and edits for 3 different magazines, plus she writes movie reviews. But I chose her because I liked the way she connected her sentences and the word choices she used--very relaxed and non-collegiate writing. She also said in the resume that she sent me, “Never quiet the writer’s voice.” I trust her judgment and will accept any changes that she makes.
And the number one reason of why I’m posting in this thread, I can’t see my own mistakes.
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09-24-2005, 6:55 AM
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Linda Adams

Joined on 05-13-2001
USA
Posts 474
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Yes, self-editing is possible--hiring an editor to fix mistakes isn't necessary. This is just a matter of learning how to proofread. The first thing to do is to set the piece aside for at least a few days. The reason you're not spotting the mistakes is because you just wrote it and it's still too fresh in your mind. I can think of time and time again where I proofread something immediately after writing it and then did it a few days later and found tons of embarrassing mistakes I'd missed during the initial reading. Because I was familiar with the material, I was reading what I expected to see, not what was really there. When I'm not familiar with the material--as you discovered with someone else's letter--mistakes stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.
After you set it aside for a few days, then read it aloud at least three times. Reading aloud will tell you right away when something doesn't sound right--you'll practically trip over it. The first pass will catch most of the major mistakes. The second two passes will pick up the harder to find problems (omitted words; wrong words).
Try the book Powerful Proofreading Skills for specific techniques on finding problem areas. I was doing technical writing and didn't have anyone to edit and catch my mistakes. This book taught me how to do it.
Linda Adams
Member of International Thriller Writers and Washington Independent Writers http://www.hackman-adams.com http://garridon.blogspot.com/
Contributing Author: http://www.hackman-adams.com/linda/credits.htm
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09-24-2005, 6:56 AM
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Brena
Joined on 05-30-2005
United States
Posts 56
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Here is the second paragraph of an essay I wrote about smoking.
before edit:
I didn’t get hooked right away. It was only something to pass the time and help me along with my studies, I assured myself. I’d buy one pack that would last me at least two weeks, but before long, my studies became more challenging and I lit up more often. This smoking thing was becoming more of a habit. And only after a few months, the smoking ceremony had left the front door of my living room and entered through the back door of my social life. I would go to parties with a pack of cigarettes in my purse. I’d pull one out and tap the filter’s edge on the carton like I had seen in the movies. I had even bought one of those sexy gold-plated cigarette lighters to fire it up with. I was now sexier than ever. Oftentimes, I’d even day dream of 1940’s movie star vixens who wore bright red lipstick and always got their man, with a cigarette in one hand.
Her Edit:
That initial buzz wasn’t enough to get me hooked right away. It only seemed like something to pass the time and help me along with my studies––or at least that’s what I told myself. At first, a pack would last me about two weeks, but before long, my studies became more challenging and I lit up more often. This smoking thing was becoming more of a habit, and it was only a few months before it quickly invaded my social life. I would go to parties with a pack of cigarettes in my purse, casually pulling one out and tapping the filter’s edge on the carton like I had seen in the movies. I had even bought one of those sexy gold-plated cigarette lighters to fire it up with. I felt sexier than ever––like the 1940s movie-star vixens who wore bright red lipstick and always got their man, with a cigarette in one hand.
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10-02-2005, 1:58 AM
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Bandito63
Joined on 04-03-2005
SW MO
Posts 252
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Hi Brena,
I haven't smoked in over twenty years, but when I did, I would tap the filter on a solid surface to pack the tobacco in the cigarette. This allowed for the slow, even burn of the tobacco without hot spots along the cigarette. Some people would tap a new package of cigarettes before they opened it. In all of my years of smoking however, never once did I tap the filter of my cigarette on the carton. The carton is the thin cardboard container that holds ten packages or packs of cigarettes, i.e. a carton of cigarettes.
Back in the movies of the 1940s, the ladies would usually tap their cigarettes on a metal cigarette case. Since the cigarettes then did not have filters, the tobacco was packed so that it did not end up in the mouth. Another way to get around this loose tobacco was to use a cigarette holder. After a little reflecting, I think that I do remember a lady who did tap her cigarette on the pack itself.
Thanks for showing us the before and after. Her paraphrasing does seem to help improve the writing.
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10-02-2005, 5:43 PM
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Blackdog
Joined on 08-21-2005
Posts 133
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Brena,
The proofreading/editing thead is one that pops up quite often, and there is always someone who says that every writer can self-edit. However, I maintain that what works for one individual does not always, necessarily, work for another. There are just some people for whom proofing is very difficult, and I am one of them. I have a lawyer friend who has the same problem, not just with proofing, but she will sometimes submit documents before realizing that an entire page is missing. Our minds just work that way.
It has nothing to do with whether or not you are a good writer/lawyer. Think of the brilliant scientist who walks out in the morning without his shoes. And as far as copyediting goes, I do not believe that there is anything written that cannot be improved, if only in a small way.
Some are lucky enough to have friends or relations who can cast an objective eye on their work for free. I paid someone early on to critique my work. It was certainly much less expensive than paying for classes, and I learned enough that I now use his services only occasionally, However, I always, always have to rely on another person to proof my work, even though I can proof other's work quite well.
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01-14-2006, 10:23 PM
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Zaza
Joined on 01-13-2006
Posts 5
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There hasn't been much action on this self-editing thread lately, but I'd like to add something I read about it somewhere. This has more to do with catching typos and other errors, than real editing. What you do is take each page and read it backwards, either one word at a time or one line at a time. That way you're concentrating on each word instead of just reading what you wrote.
I became acquainted with a freelance editor who charges one dollar per manuscript page. He will give you a free sample of his work. He was a great help to me, and in return I did publicity for him when he came to town to make a presentation. He says most editors, not proof readers, charge two dollars per page. If you're interested, I can send you his contact information.
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02-14-2007, 6:47 PM
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athenasurf
Joined on 04-12-2006
Posts 5
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Hi, Brena: I like your "before" paragraph better -- the front door - back door sentence really worked for me and taking it out kind of flattened it. Nothing wrong with getting rid of unnecessary words or making the writing more clear, but I was surprised the editor chose to exclude that. And even an editor can use an editor: In the phrase "-- like the 1940s movie-star vixens...," it should be "1940's" instead of "1940s." And I think instead of "...vixens who wore bright red lipstick and always got their man, with a cigarette in one hand," I would have said simply "...vixen who blew a smoke ring without squinting and always got her man." (Vixens would have always gotten their men, for one thing.) Alas, perfection is elusive (and subjective).
Athena
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02-19-2007, 6:05 PM
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tdkerst
Joined on 02-20-2007
Posts 8
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Hi Brena, Sure, self-editing is very possible if you have some good guides to lead the way. Among the best I know, these old chestnuts still help better than most: Strunk and White's The Elements of Style, William Zinsser's On Writing Well: A Guide to Writing Non-fiction (now in its 30th anniversary edition), and Diana Hacker's A Pocket Style Manual. They'll give you the rules, the rationale, and the confidence to edit your own work. All the best, tdkerst
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