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Pet peeves

Started by Mike27 at 02-06-2005 8:19 PM. Topic has 108 replies.
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   02-06-2005, 8:19 PM
Mike27


Joined on 06-22-2004
Alberta, Canada
Posts 152
RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
Back from my cappuccino!

Way to go Northwriter! LOL [(-D][(-D]

I'll step to the right.

"Every man is the architect of his own fortune." --Appius Claudius
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   02-06-2005, 9:50 PM
Wizereader1960

Joined on 10-06-2004
Posts 32
Post Icon RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
[:D][:D][:D]Hello-

I completely agree with you 100%, Diane. People don't necessarily have to take every college course on writing to be a good writer. All it takes is the simple action of going and reading all about the trade, going and learning as much as you can. My father, who loves reading and even started to delve into writing way back when (but unfortunately he never pursued writing) is one of the most intelligent men I have ever known, and he is self-taught. I too am self-taught, but I do plan to go back to school. But that's going into babbling. My point is that you absolutley are standing on the right grounds for your opinion. And although editors do gut and reform writer's work, I completely understand and accept their duty in the writing spectrum. However, on the thing you said about how they use only 10% of the actual goods the writers turn in, I gotta disagree on that. My first two published opinion pieces were hardly even gutted or reformed. A small part was edited for space, but other than that, I did what any good writer worth his or her salt should naturally do, and that was what you said writers should do. I did my research, I did the proper work involved to make it better. From your opinion on this topic, I like you already! Keep up whatever it is that you're doing![;)][;)][;)]
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   02-06-2005, 10:10 PM
Wizereader1960

Joined on 10-06-2004
Posts 32
Post Icon RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
[8)](On my reply)
I didn't read all the threads that went with the comment before submitting my opinion. I was actually just reading them a little while before this reply, and WOW, I feel all blushy. LOL! I broke a rule that I agreed with. [:I] But anywho, there was a little bit of heatedness on the strand. Not that I am put off or offended by that sorta thing, on the contrary, I happen to like debating over substantial things with other intellectual types. But I just thought I'd post this as a little confession that I broke a rule. :::hangs head down in utter shame::: LOL! Anyway, I like a lot of the people in here, thought I'd just tell you all. Nothing like repartee to entertain people, afterall,[:o)] what's life without a little bit of it?[}:)]
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   02-06-2005, 10:22 PM
Wizereader1960

Joined on 10-06-2004
Posts 32
Post Icon RE: RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
QUOTE: Originally posted by ritab512

Rita is leaving the ring now. After spending an hour reading this thread she still couldn't figure out if she should move to the right or the left.[%-)] Her hair is dishevelled, a bruise on her right cheek sustained when she failed to duck in time, clothes tattered and one shoe missing. [B)] She limps away clutching her writing books and submission guidelines she's been collecting for ten years ,glad she studied and praciticed writing, too. She is laughing though, because the people on this forum are just so darned funny! [(-D]


[bow]HaHaHaHaHa, ritab512!!! I like that a lot. I have to scratch my head too. And I'm kinda wondering, which side should I choose?[%-)] Or rather, which side did the most intelligent people step to? Because you know what? I think I need to step into that line.[:p] Nonetheless, I think I'm gonna bid everyone a warm farewell and hope to see some kindness shown on this darn strand. {{{Not really, keep up the repartee, people. Me likey it a lot.}}}[swg]
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   02-07-2005, 12:34 AM
brokenfingers

Joined on 04-02-2004
Posts 350
Post Icon RE: RE: Writers who don''''t try to learn their trade
QUOTE: Originally posted by shatteredday

Brokenfingers --
There are some personalities here that don't seem to mix well; I'll leave it at that.


(Psssst! Shatteredday!)

(No, no - down here! Shhh, not too loud, they might hear us...)


(I know what you mean, buddy. Why do you think I didn't post anything over at the Political Correctness thread? Sheesh, it's getting downright hazardous around here....)
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   02-07-2005, 12:04 PM
mammamaia

Joined on 10-22-2002
island of tinian [northern marianas]
Posts 1,876
RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
step where!?

hey, i don't take orders from anybody on where i can stand and where i can't!... go herd all those sheep and cattle out there... i'll stand wherever i damn well please!!!

[how's that for 'attitude' north? ;-)]

hugs, m

for 100% free help/mentoring:
www.saysmom.com

"You must BE the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi
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   02-07-2005, 12:09 PM
DiTryin

Joined on 12-02-2004
Posts 17
Post Icon RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade

To answer the earlier questions:

I used to pay $50 for unpublished and $25 for previously published pieces but was quickly putting myself out of business. (But I did enjoy the satifisfaction of looking through market listings and seeing that I paid more than publications who bring in a lot more money than my site does. I still do)

And yes, after getting buried alive in submissions twice, I got an assistant editor to handle the submissions sent to the email addy listed in the guidelines.


Now... no matter what I say or how gently I walk on eggshells, SOME people are going to blow it out of proportion, twist it into something I never intended,....

I sincerely thought I was doing some people a favor when I started this thread and did so in the best intentions.

There are plenty of books, ebooks, and articles out there for anyone who wants to read them and more come out every day. It is my opinion that many writers would benefit from them and in my experience I see a vast majority don't bother.

How many editors are going to bother to tell certain writers that they need to read a book on how to write a good query or how to write a piece that's interesting enough to keep you reading past the first paragraph or...? If they did, some would take it as being heartless, others will see it as an attack on them and not on their piece, and very few will see it as career advice.

If you've been reading this thread all along, you've seen why editors just reject it without comment or don't respond at all and then move on -- it's not worth the aggravation.

How any writer is supposed to learn from experience that way, I'll never know.


If you want to succeed as a writer -- Go for it! If not,

“Do what you always do and you’ll get what you always get.”
~ Peter Thomson


If nothing else comes out of this, I have further proof for my theory on what happens to schoolyard bullies when they grow up: they lurk in online discussion groups like vultures waiting for any opportunity to pounce on someone because it makes them feel superior.

There's at least one in every group: the one person most of the other participants would love to vote off the island; the person who makes other people too afraid to post because they don't want to be the next one to be singled out.

They're a lot easier to spot in person: they are control freaks; they are extremely insecure; they are the center of their own universe -- nothing else matters except what they want, what they need, etc.; they have no conscience and are not capable of feeling remorse; they get their jollies by crushing everyone's feelings around them (e.g. While standing in line at a crowded movie theater behind an obese person they loudly say: "How can anyone let themselves get that way?"); they typically have no friends; former lovers call them "psycho;" their spouse is a beatened down empty shell of the person they once were who daydreams about killing them or themselves just to end their nightmare; their parents are/were typically extreme opposites (e.g. tyrant father/over-doting mother); etc., etc., etc.

And the saddest part is: psychos breed more psychos.


Have a nice day! [:D]

Diane

http://www.CoolStuff4Writers.com
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   02-07-2005, 2:41 PM
Mike27


Joined on 06-22-2004
Alberta, Canada
Posts 152
Post Icon RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
QUOTE: DiTryin:
Now... no matter what I say or how gently I walk on eggshells, SOME people are going to blow it out of proportion, twist it into something I never intended,....

…ohhkay…

QUOTE: DiTryin:
They're a lot easier to spot in person: they are control freaks; they are extremely insecure; they are the center of their own universe -- nothing else matters except what they want, what they need, etc.; they have no conscience and are not capable of feeling remorse; they get their jollies by crushing everyone's feelings around them (e.g. While standing in line at a crowded movie theater behind an obese person they loudly say: "How can anyone let themselves get that way?"); they typically have no friends; former lovers call them "psycho;" their spouse is a beatened down empty shell of the person they once were who daydreams about killing them or themselves just to end their nightmare; their parents are/were typically extreme opposites (e.g. tyrant father/over-doting mother); etc., etc., etc.

And the saddest part is: psychos breed more psychos.

Right! Now I understand…(tongue in cheek)

Believe me Diane, I get your point. A complete writer has both book knowledge and practical experience, combined with a sound educational background and should not rely too heavily on one or the other. The evidence of such is the garbage articles you and other editors receive. I get it.

I feel though, you seem to think that if any of the unwashed dare offer additional advice or even question your authority, we are labeled as…wait let me make sure I get this right:
control freaks, insecure, no conscience, not feeling remorse, crusher of feelings, no friends, spouse beater, empty shell, daydream killer, tyrant father, over doting mother, did I miss any? Oh wait, psycho!

I feel sad for you, I really do. What a way to go through life.

With so much beauty in the world, why would one want to dwell in a pit of anxiety and despair.?


"Every man is the architect of his own fortune." --Appius Claudius
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   02-26-2005, 12:41 AM
pviel

Joined on 02-10-2005
Posts 180
Post Icon RE: RE: Writers who don''t try to learn their trade
QUOTE: Originally posted by zubbycat

I agree with James on this one. The first thing I did when I decided I was going to start writing seriously is I got some good books on the industry, on the craft of writing, etc., etc. I also enrolled in a couple courses. I wanted to learn from the experience of others so that I wouldn't jeopardize my chances for success. Maybe I'm just a planner, but I can't imagine going into something like freelancing blind without any idea how the industry works.

zubbycat :)


I do think a writer must work at the art and the craft of writing but I have a serious question.......... What is a good book on the ins and outs of the industry? Writer's Market /Poet's Market I know are excellent but beyond those two it seems to me there are thousands of books and courses that are totally useless and worse destructive to aspiring writers. Vanity Press rip offs. Forums like this are great if you can hook up with the real pros at getting published and getting an agent. Maybe reading everything printed on the subject will keep a writer feeling like they are moving forward. Check out the forums here for good information. But published or not DiTryin makes a good point. Writing (the art) is far easier when you are starting off than getting published (the craft). Only hard work and not just research but also building a network in the industry will get you where you want to be. Shoe leather, Letter writing and phone calls are critical.. Those writers who succeed would do well to mentor those on their way up who have talent .

Deep down we both know who we are and we may never pass this way again so we dance in words and the spaces between them
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   02-26-2005, 1:53 AM
obanion

Joined on 01-09-2005
Posts 309
Post Icon RE: RE: Writers who don't try to learn their trade
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jamesaritchie

QUOTE: Originally posted by DiTryin


Here's something that's been grating my cheese since the day I said my newsletter is a paying market: writers don't go out of their way to learn their trade.

Maybe I'm the only one who, when the decision to get into freelance writing hit me, I bought books and ebooks, signed up for newsletters, and read the articles on writer sites trying to learn everything I could to so I would succeed. (Yeah, ok, so I'm book-smart and experience poor, but this will work in my favor once I start submitting)

But if you get more rejections than you do acceptances, do yourself a favor and READ! Learn how to do it right so you'll stop doing it wrong. Learn how to write a good, attention-getting query, learn how to submit it, proofread your piece before you send it, run it by someone else (preferably a writer) to make sure it's clear and as good as it can be before you send it to an editor, look at past issues to see if it's even a good fit for this publication (someone once sent me a piece on LINUX (the computer code) -- and then sent me a nastygram when I said it wasn't a good fit for my newsletter! And writers wonder why some editors don't respond! <pound head on desk>),..........

Have you ever heard that editors can only use 10% of what they receive? I'm here to tell you -- that is s-o-o-o-o true! You don't have to be in the other 90%. Do a little homework. Learn from the pros what works and what doesn't. If you really want to succeed -- do yourself (and editors) a favor and do it!

[8D]

Diane

http://www.coolstuff4writers.com/FreeShipping.html




You make very good points, and nearly all new writers would serve themselves well by listening. Learning to write well usually takes time and practice, but new writers do so many needless things wrong that it greatly lengthens how long it takes to become successful. Mearly all these newbie mistakes could be avoided just by reading how-to books and magaines.

And most editors can only use 1% or less of what comes in. Often less than one half of one percent.



which how-to books and magazines would you recommend?
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