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Writing in the news

Started by brokenfingers at 12-28-2004 6:18 PM. Topic has 63 replies.
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   12-28-2004, 6:18 PM
brokenfingers

Joined on 04-02-2004
Posts 350
RE: Read this and weep...
How’s it going, guys? I just want to clarify a few things.

First I have nothing against Frawg or Rita or James or Leeann or anybody here. Nor have I spouted my position on any side of the debate about government resources. I like hearing different sides and perspectives on problems that arise here.

My only problem, which I have stated before - more than once, is when members dismiss other members opinions out of hand, with no discussion or opposing viewpoint. Or when a member doesn’t agree with another member and/or resorts to name-calling or other things that I feel don’t have a place in an adult place of discussion. Nor do I like it when a clique seems to gang up on one member, not because they disagree with them – but because the sorry sap crossed one of the gang. Believe me, I saw this type of behavior all my life. Some poor soul said or did the wrong thing to one person and then they had twenty other guys howling for their blood.

I have posted whenever I felt something like this was going on and will always do so.

Leeann, remember joetowngirl and how she felt when it seemed everyone was out to get her? I spoke up for her then. I also spoke up for Kat when it seemed like the Forum ‘lynch mob’ was out to get her.

I can’t help it, it’s my nature. I’ll let all kinds of things happen to me and not care a whit about it, but let me see it happen to someone else and I have to do something. Faulty wiring, I guess.

I posted in defense of what Rita said because, instead of saying “Rita I disagree with what you said because…” and then proceeding to explain why his opinion was different from hers, kd posted with a tone that seemed to say: “rita, you obviously have no clue. Shut up and go home.”


Rita had a valid point that many people in this country think a broken nail is actual hardship. Or not being able to get free videos or free internet access. Whatever - it doesn’t matter if you agree or not, the point I was trying to make is that we should not be so dismissive of other people’s views here.

Defending your position with facts is one thing – just sniffing your nose and dismissing them with a “Bah!” is another.

But even so, I still like Frawg and hold nothing against him whatsoever. I enjoy his posts and always look forward to his wit and wisdom.

I’m only stating my opinion and if someone disagrees with me and thinks we should be able to call those who disagree with us not-nice names and dismiss their opinions off-hand – oh well.


Write On, Fellow Travelers!

P.S. I don’t know about where you are – but it’s very cold here under the bridge…..
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   12-28-2004, 6:29 PM
kdfrawg

Joined on 05-28-2004
Lawrence, KS
Posts 1,008
Post Icon RE: Read this and weep...
Reality is that set of circumstances which seems most concrete at the moment.
Kermit, 1982

It is difficult for anyone to judge the reality in which someone else lives. There is a great deal of philosophy, both ancient and modern, that postulates that all realities are equal from the inside, from a northern Chinese beet farmer to Ted Turner. That is to say, they each seem equally real to the owner of the reality.

Most places don't work the way that rita's seems to, although I commend her family's incredible volunteer spirit. Other realities are different. Say New York and Tokyo and San Francisco, as examples. What rita seems to be saying is that if everyone is unwilling to volunteer and buy things in the gift shop, they can't have a library. But that dooms people in non-rural realities to having no libraries. Of course, I must wonder how well rita's library would function in the reality of Singapore.

I am not arguing with you, rita. I am simply saying that very few people in our world live in your small-town American reality. For them, different methods are required to retain libraries as a part of reality. Regardless, they should not be dismissed as unimportant because their realities are different.

The same general thought processes governs the reality of suffering.

Go back to the top and think it through with suffering as the subject.

Do until done.
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   12-28-2004, 8:19 PM
kdfrawg

Joined on 05-28-2004
Lawrence, KS
Posts 1,008
RE: Read this and weep...
Lord, it's been ten years. Maybe because I have overactive food genes, my best memories are of food vendors on the streets. In most cases, I have no idea what I ate. I just followed my nose to the food and ate it.

My second "best" memory is of being taller than everybody else, and a different color. Just like high school, but there I was shorter than most. At any rate (including 7.5%), being a very long way away from home and standing out in a crowd is a life lesson, no matter how it happens.
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   12-28-2004, 9:19 PM
flea23


Joined on 01-02-2004
Yulamatoo - On the outskirts of Boogaloo
Posts 2,473
RE: Read this and weep...
Lordy, Lordy
I don't understand that when people with differing opinions all happen to agree on a subject, they are all conspiring to gang up on someone.

Must be the Republicans fault !! They conspired and ganged up on John Kerry, just so they could vote George Bush in office. (oh, yeah, George W.) nnnnnnnnoooo. The truth is, there is no conspiracy. The fact is, they all happen to agree.

I know of no one mad at Brokenfingers or rita. I know the regulars pretty well. I don't always agree with Lee Ann, Kat, Frawg, Blueridge, James, the other James, Alienlady, or anyone else, but as far as I know, no one has ever ganged up on anyone else.

Lee Ann didn't come crying to me when people seemed to gang up on her. Kat didn't. Frawg didn't. Every People just don't always agree with everyone else. Don't get upset if no one agrees with you (generic you).

Name calling is something different. Call me any name anyone wants to call me. I've been called worse. Wanna see my mother? I have a picture I pass out to my students and say, "I'm sick and tired of ya'll saying 'Yo mama'. Now look at my mama." Then I show them the ugliest picture that has ever been on the internet. My real mother wouldn't care. I tell them before they disrespect anyone elxe, throw all the vile comments on "my mother", not "yo mama".

Has all our discussion been in a literary manner and professional?

Lee Ann - Love ya sweetheart. You mean, you mean, you mean............joetowngirl was just. It was just, it was just AN ALIAS? How could you? I could never bring myself to use an alias.

The wordmaster

As to Flea23 "You'll never get to the bottom of him".
He's bigger than life, but then, which life are you talking about.? There's 23 of him.........

From childhood's hour - I have not been As others were - I have not seen As others saw - I could not bring My passions from a common spring -- EDGAR ALLAN POE
(a true independemo-republicrat)
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   12-28-2004, 9:24 PM
flea23


Joined on 01-02-2004
Yulamatoo - On the outskirts of Boogaloo
Posts 2,473
RE: Read this and weep...
Lee Ann

Almost forgot. I'll keep my zip lipped with you. I'll never talk about anything either...................................... okay. I'm through.

to whoever -
Remember RainMan? He HAD to watch Judge Wapner. If he didn't, he suffered. The American's are hated in much of the rest of the world because they exude such an air of superiority.

The wordmaster

As to Flea23 "You'll never get to the bottom of him".
He's bigger than life, but then, which life are you talking about.? There's 23 of him.........

From childhood's hour - I have not been As others were - I have not seen As others saw - I could not bring My passions from a common spring -- EDGAR ALLAN POE
(a true independemo-republicrat)
   Report Abuse 
   12-28-2004, 9:28 PM
flea23


Joined on 01-02-2004
Yulamatoo - On the outskirts of Boogaloo
Posts 2,473
RE: Read this and weep...
Go Kat Go!

Anyone Remember Gene Vincent?

The wordmaster

As to Flea23 "You'll never get to the bottom of him".
He's bigger than life, but then, which life are you talking about.? There's 23 of him.........

From childhood's hour - I have not been As others were - I have not seen As others saw - I could not bring My passions from a common spring -- EDGAR ALLAN POE
(a true independemo-republicrat)
   Report Abuse 
   12-29-2004, 12:02 AM
kdfrawg

Joined on 05-28-2004
Lawrence, KS
Posts 1,008
RE: Read this and weep...
Somehow, my post in support of the repositories of books, on a writers forum, where virtually everyone has raised on high the virtues of books, or at least of some books, has generated 37 posts, almost halfway to alleycat’s predicted 80. From this end, it feels a bit like going to an American Legion bar in your uniform and getting shot at. Well, I’ve been shot at before and I suppose that I can easily survive this virtual situation.

After others introduced the political as a sore point, I tried to be as logical as I could in making my points. It is possible that I was a tiny bit dismissive of rita’s first post. I do not, however, feel compelled to apologize. Statements so broad they are unsupportable except as subjective idiom (including “We are the most spoiled and coddled nation on the face of the earth.”, “Politics aside, the nation as a whole is bloated and self centered.”, and “A little suffering is good!”) make objective refutation impossible. They are the forum equivalent of the political sound bite or the political tactic of the “big lie.” Don’t shoot me yet, rita, it’s easier to agree with you later, after you’d thought about it.

And, in fact, my refutation of those subjective sound bites was less than proficient. I guess that is to be expected. Nothing had really been said yet. I was replying to ghosts and it showed. I hate it when I do that. Still and all, I felt I had to point out that people suffer everywhere and that rita probably was not one of them, since she was unable to feel the pain of the sufferers.

Brokenfingers then helped rita by placing some subjective statements under her sound bites. At the same time, he seems to indicate that his life was very hard, so he certainly understood suffering, but that he disliked whiners. I’ll let the illogic of those two thoughts pass. I think I understand what he was trying to say.

He goes on to intimate that his experience in the area of world suffering exceeds that of everyone else, and therefore his authority is not to be questioned. Well, I’m willing to bet that for at least one of us, he is incorrect. I have just under four million air miles under my belt. I’ve seen it too. It is indeed bad, but so are parts of our country. Being a single mother anywhere is not easy. Having cancer anywhere is difficult. Having an incurable neurological disease any where is not fun. Again, on those last two items, I have much real-world experience.

In generalities, however, the points made by both rita and brokenfingers have at least semi-valid underpinnings. Americans tend to forget Canada and Sweden and the Netherlands and Switzerland and the other countries of the world that rank above us in most categories, but most of the world is worse off, at least materially. Whether or not material considerations are truly paramount is questionable, but will have to wait for another time. Simply put, Americans often talk the talk of anti-materialism but walk their walk at Walmart.

I am not impressed with jingoism. Nor am I impressed with negativism. So up to this point in the tread, nobody, including me has said much. That is often the way these things go. Still, I was raised very poor, under the shadow of the projects. I learned to enjoy the variety and there was plenty of that. It’s easy to get a world view in an American ghetto. I learned a lot about my fellow man there, on both sides of the discussion. So I have seen poor people here and on five other continents. It may be worse elsewhere, but it not exactly great here.

James then blamed the closing on poor library operations and bad management. The Republican economy is not to be blamed. It is only fair that I point out that the Democratic economy is not to be blamed either, especially since the Republicans dismantled it. I am somewhat disturbed that he finds the “population type” in Salinas to be less deserving than his “population type.” In truth, libraries are doing well in places like Johnson County, KS and Seattle because both of those places have a wealthy tax base. Very few wealthy people desire to live in Salinas, even if they’ve earned their millions there.

Alleycat then makes several good points, mainly involving the benefits of an involved and upscale public in things such as libraries. The same things benefit schools. I consider those to be excellent things, except that they do not exist everywhere.

Then, after some static, rita relates the commendable story of the local library here family founded and in which she still volunteers. It is clear that she is living the library idyll. Then she repeats the suffering generalities, and noted earlier. But she does make excellent points about how these things work in her world. Later, I am forced to indicate that much of the world is not like that.

Then brokenfingers returns with another post about dismissive posts. I have not yet seen anyone dismiss anyone in this thread to this point. In fact, the arguments are getting more and more meaningful on both sides. That does not make anyone dismissive, it just makes our points clearer. I read what I had posted very clearly and did not fond it dismissive of rita. I do find that brokenfingers is very clearly dismissive of me. <shrug> So, while I love brokenfinger like a brother, as he does me, I cannot help but notice his dismissal.

I then try to make a number of cohesive points, as referred to above, indication that a single approach, no matter how well it works in a spot or two, will not work everywhere, or even in most circumstances. Then I say that suffering works much the same way. It is relative, experienced differently in different circumstances.

Next, Lee Ann (sorry if I’ve been writing that wrong) makes a great deal of sense across a variety of points. In the end, it is close enough to be a rock version of the First Amendment. A bit later, she asks a pointed question about why rita is so outspoken about the general question of whether of not I had been to Singapore. However, it appears that she has deleted the post containing her concern. Next, I reply to the now non-existent concern about my worthiness to comment on Singapore. Hmmmph.

To reiterate, I have tried to post in good faith. As I said way up at the top of this post, I didn’t expect it to turn into a fracas. I was just trying to express my sorrow at the closing of libraries. I find that the sorrow remains. I am sorry that many of you do not share my sorrow and would rather politicize what is essentially, to me, a simple sorrow. But, please you are entitled to your own views on libraries and books and turnips, and everything else, so say on.

I, too, will continue to say on.



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